The Carr / Irvine Family

This article is part of a family history written some time ago by Betty (Winchester) Woolley and is reproduced here with her permission. As a child Betty knew Elsie, Eva and Jessie Carr and wanted to share her family connection with the Carr family. The following is in regard to the Mrs Jane Carr and her family's connection to the Theresa (Foreman) & Walter Pope Winchester family - when Walter was widowed and he and his 2 sons  lived with them at Fitzroy and South Yarra over approx 9 years. 

Walter Pope Winchester had been married and had 3 children (one died not long after birth), unfortunately his wife Ada died three weeks after their last child was born. This led to Walter Eric being left with his maternal Grandmother Jane (Dalton - Wright – Elder – Hounsell, married 3 times at least) and Ada Hilda with her paternal Grandmother Mary Jane (Wellington) Winchester) while Walter found work to support his children.

By 1904 Walter Pope Winchester was back in Victoria and had met Teresa Janet Forman, born at Moama 25.4.1879, and who lived at Finley not far from Cobram. On the 19.7.1904 another trip to Holts Matrimonial Agency at 448 Queen St Melbourne, united Teresa and Walter in marriage, the Holts acting as witnesses again. (His 1st marriage was also conducted there) Holts ran advertisements in the newspapers of the day and also had a Newsletter they sent out to interested parties looking for partners. Was this how Walter met his wives or just coincidental and convenient to marry at a Registry Office instead of a Church knowing the "condition" (both were pregnant at the time of marriage) of his brides? Teresa and Walters current addresses were 39 and 37 Hanover St Fitzroy, this was actually a boarding house at both numbers.  

36 Hanover Street Fitzroy

When the couple's first baby Gordon Stanley ( according to his Birth Certificate, but always known as Stan) arrived on 8th October 1904 at Nurse Morgan's home, 80 Gore Street Fitzroy, their place of residence was 36 Hanover Street Fitzroy, a two storeyed Italianate Style house one of a pair. The house at 80 Gore Street Fitzroy, close to the corner of Gertrude Street, is one of a pair, named Brooks buildings, and appears to have been owned by a Mr Brooks who had a furniture store back to back with the houses, facing into Smith Street. This furniture store is now used by Stephen Datner, who produces beautiful tables and furniture made from recycled timber. There are three levels to the house, a basement, ground and upper story, and this pair of houses does carry a Worthy of Preservation, classification by the National Trust, because there are not many three level pairs of houses remaining. According to "Sands McDougal" directories of this period, it seems Nurse Morgan lived with her parents here and conducted a "lying in" facility for mothers. I wonder how the labouring mother was conveyed to the home, possibly by horse and carriage, I suppose.  

The house at 36 Hanover Street is one I have managed to have a look at when it was up for Auction 22nd May 1993, and viewing times were published. This was also next door to where the Carr and Irvine families lived at 38 (which is the pair to number 36) and would play a large part in Walter Pope Winchester's next family's life. The house is a large two story white painted Italianate Style building, with a recessed veranda railed by a wrought iron fence and gate, and a tessellated floor to this entry area. After entering the front door into a hallway, there is a lounge off to the right, and a staircase leading upstairs, as you face the hallway left, with a small passage to the right of that, which takes you through to the Kitchen. The lounge has a doorway through to a dining room, with a door from this room, leading into the kitchen, which seems to have been renovated and possibly extended from the original. Under the stairway off the small passage there is a powder room and also a tiny laundry, concealed by folding doors. Walking upstairs you reach a small landing and another few steps up lead to the right and another landing, there are two bedrooms at the front of the house, with another bedroom coming back toward the stair. Facing the back of the house coming back down the short flight, and walking straight ahead there is a bathroom off on the right and another bedroom at the rear. I have painted a picture in oils of the entry to this house and it shows the house as I saw it. At a guess I would estimate the block and house width to be about 16 feet and about 150-160 feet length. Where there would have been an outside laundry and original toilet, now there is a nicely paved courtyard with a roller door to the right of way at the rear, allowing room to park a car.

 This house really got my sentimental feelings going as I thought about, did the new family have rooms here for a time before moving next door to number 34? It doesn't seem likely to me, that Walter and Teresa would have rented the whole house, it is so big, but I am only guessing! In view of later events in Walter's life after Teresa died, I could imagine a young Stanley and Wallace being genteelly brought up in the Carr and Irvine household, I know which room they slept in, from talking to Wal in later life. I thought of my father Stanley as a little boy calling through the letter opening to Eva Carr, saying “Woo Wah!" his way of saying Eva when small. Eva and Elsie Carr both worked in the clothing and hat making industry and would often be sewing at home, when they needed more thread or ribbon etc, Stan or Wal would be sent to go and buy the goods for them.

One could fancy you could hear a sound or two from the past standing in that house.

I should make mention of Walter's employment, Wal told me his father worked for a time with Bars Printing in Brunswick Street Fitzroy. Advance Press in Post office Place in Melbourne, and J.T.Picken opposite the old fruit market in Victoria Market. Ironically not far from the location of Holts Matrimonial Agency at the top of Queen Street opposite the Victoria Market. Advance Press was owned by Vic Dullard and a friend, who had both been childhood mates of Walter's in Mooroopna. Vic was connected with the Trotting Control Board and each year there is a race for the Vic Dullard Cup, on 11.5.1984 it was worth $10.000. On enquiry about the event 18/2/1998 to the Harness Racing Victoria offices, I was told that Dullard was the Editor of the “Australian Trotting Record”, and considered the finest journalist in that field. The race was first run in 1923, and when last run 14/2/1998 the prize was worth $50,000. The type of printing Walter was compositor for were bills, advertising e.g. cars, programs, reports for companies etc and general print work, also printing on tin for advertising, and possibly in printing the “Australian Trotting Record” also.  

Here are some recollections from Stan Winchester of life in Fitzroy around this time, it is reproduced from the Morwell Rotary Bulletin 24th October 1974.

"Stan Winchester, the only remaining member of the original group of Rotarians in the Morwell Rotary Club, was born at Fitzroy on the 8th October 1904, and he lived in Hanover Street opposite the Exhibition Gardens, with his father, a compositor in the Printing trade, his mother and younger brother Wallace Bruce born 13th August 1907.

Mrs Jane Carr

Stan's mother died 17th April 1910, when he was 5 and half year, and his father took up residence with a family living next door so that the boys could be looked after whilst their father was at work. This family comprised of two sisters, (Jessie Irvine and Jean Carr) one a spinster the other a widow with two teenage daughters and a School teacher son, (Eva and Elsie and Morton Carr) and the Widows two bachelor brothers (Walter and Jack Irvine.) The brothers were tradesmen, one plumber the other a cabinet maker, and it was these two who were going to have a large influence on Stan's choice of job in later years.

Stan said that Fitzroy in those days was somewhat similar to Toorak of today; many wealthy people lived in fine stately houses there. Two he remembers well were Mr Finklestein, father of Phil Finklestein an executive of the early years of the "Herald" newspaper, and Mr Abrahams whose family conducted a Hardware and General business in Elizabeth Street, Melbourne. These people because of their Jewish faith did not work on Saturdays, and particularly in winter time, got Stan and his mate to clean out their fire grates and set the fire for them at the very worthwhile remuneration of threepence each plus a lolly. Mr Finklestein was the proud owner of a Phaeton and pair, which he drove from the stables at the rear of his house to the front, and would get Stan or his mate to hold the horses heads, while he went inside and brought out his wife, help her into the Phaeton, take up the reins and drive off for an hour or two. After similar help from the boys on his return, each would receive their threepence.  

Stan said it was good to think back on the many changes he saw, and experiences he had in Fitzroy. He remembers the telephone wires being placed underground, thus doing away with the many hundreds of poles and overhead wires, many shows at the Exhibition Buildings and Bicycle Track, Eight Hours Processions and carnivals, St Patricks Day processions when he and his mate would wear a bit of green, join the procession and then on the Monday, fight with the kids from the Catholic School next door to the one in Rathdown Street that he attended.

In 1916 Stan's family moved to 23 Darling Street South Yarra and he became a pupil at the Punt Road School. The older boys there went to Malvern Road school one half day each week to do Sloyd (woodwork). They helped to make crutches and walking sticks for the crippled soldiers of the 1914-18 war. School pupils also helped to raise money for the Comforts Funds for the soldiers.

Stan left school in 1918 to work as a junior salesman in a boot shop. In 1919 he started work with a shop and office fitter, lasted there for 2 and half years and then worked as a house builder in Alphington. When he turned 21 and was due for full tradesman wage, Stan found himself out of work. However by doing odd jobs he was able to earn enough to pay 22/6 ($2.25 ) per week board, which included washing.

Eva and Elsie and Morton Carr

He formed a partnership with another builder Perc Almond, and they got contracts to build houses in the country from "Chitty's" of Caulfield. Stan's partner's sister-in-law Norma Mary Benn, happened along at this time, and because of the "Depression" it took them seven years to save enough to become married. Norma's brother the late Archdeacon Leslie Benn, was Minister at the Church of England Morwell, at the time, so the couple came to Morwell to be married by him, and soon after became residents and stayed ever since. Stan has been associated with building about 300 houses in Morwell. In 1956 he accepted a position as Building Inspector with the Morwell Shire Council, and is now Building Surveyor.

Stan and Norma have two daughters, both married and five lovely Grandchildren." ( several of the details quoted in this piece have changed since ) 

When Stan decided to live in Morwell he eventually worked on his own as a builder, and could not afford a truck to go from job to job. He had a pushbike and would balance timber and building needs on his bike and ride off to work. A local friend used to say " If ever you saw a load of timber on wheels, you could be sure Stan Winchester was under it!"  

As mentioned before, at birth Stan was registered as Gordon Stanley Winchester, but was always known as Stanley Gordon, and it was not until he needed a Birth Certificate for Superannuation purposes after commencing work for Morwell Shire Council, that anything different was known. On his Probate papers relating to his estate after death, he is listed as having an alias, presumably because of the anomaly with his Christian names and the order used, in different matters relating to him. There is certainly no evidence to support the idea he used any different names other than his own. His names were after General Gordon of Kartoum and Stanley Livingstone the explorer..  After Stan's birth the family moved house to next door number 34 Hanover Street, from a photograph this was a small bluestone cottage of approximately four rooms, with a central passage, washing and toilet facilities in the back garden. There are Housing Commission flats built over this and the next door land, now. Wal was born at home with Nurse Lyon in attendance, while Teresa and Walter lived here.  

Elsie Carr

On 17th April 1910 unfortunately Teresa died. Eva and Elsie Carr believed Teresa was again pregnant and had suffered a fall while meeting Walter home from a trip away, she haemorrhaged and was put into the Womens Hospital where she died of Septicaemia. They also believed the baby was a girl but she did not survive. There is no evidence to support the story of the baby, but it may have been correct, because, officially a stillborn baby was not recorded anywhere until late in the 1950's. Hospital records may hold a clue if they can be accessed. Wal remembered before his mother went to Hospital, she was in bed and playing with him, making parachutes out of handkerchiefs, and he would drop them and watch them float down, he said she had dark brown hair all piled up on her head. Late in 1989 when I finally was able to obtain a photograph of Teresa, (from her niece Win (Canning) Bladon) and send a copy to Wal, he instantly knew it was his mother, after all those years, marvellous considering he was only 2 years 8 months old when she died! He remembered a horse drawn Ambulance took his mother away to Hospital. Stan remembered standing outside the Womens Hospital, and his mother waving to him and Wal and their father, because of course children would not have been allowed to visit anyone in hospitals then.  

This must have been a very sad time for the boys and Walter, again he faced the problem of how to care for his children, two small children badly in need of mothering. Carrs and Irvines seem to have been good friends and neighbours to Walter and as we know took them all in to live with them, enabling Walter to work and know his boys were cared for. He worked for a time in Zeehan, Tasmania so must have left the boys in Carr’s care.

To describe the sort of people they were, Norma, Stan's wife said of her first visit to see Carrs, he had said to her, " When we go behind the front door you will find you are in another world." Carrs followed the Plymouth Bretheren faith, living very simply, but graciously doing all they could to help people, old fashioned values and manners prevailed.

After dinner the men retired to smoke and chat while the ladies washed and tidied up, enjoying a cup of tea and chat. They were the loveliest gentle people.  

Fine ornaments and furnishings were appreciated by this household, and there were many lovely items in their home, including a pair of Bronze Horses sculpted by "Dubucand", a Frenchman who did these works about the 1880's. It is possible they were exhibited at the Great Exhibition in Melbourne in 1888. The horses were always admired by Stan and later in life he was able to have them, through an interesting set of circumstances as we will see later.  

Even after his father's third marriage in 1919 when the Winchester’s moved away, Stan always kept in contact with the Carr's and Irvines, Mrs Carr died in 1920 aged 61. Then in 1956 on 20th July Elsie Carr died, on the 10th September Jessie Irvine died, and on 18th December Eva Carr died, a very, very sad year. All Funerals were handled by Mathews Funeral Directors in South Yarra, and the women are buried at Melbourne General Cemetery in the same row as Walter and Annie Winchester and Pearl Harrigan combined grave. When Standing at the Winchester Grave, facing the head, Jessie, Elsie and Eva's joint grave is the 26th to the left.  

Eva Carr

At the time of Eva's death, Norma and Stan went to South Yarra to pick up Eva, to take her to Morwell for the Christmas break, she had experienced such a sad time losing her Aunt and Sister within a short space of time, and she would otherwise be alone. On arriving at the house they found Eva did not appear to be home in spite of the light being on. Stan could see Eva lying on her bed, and sensed all was not well. He called the police, who broke in and found Eva dead in her nightclothes as if she was preparing for bed, and had just fallen back across the bed. She may have been dead for a day or so, and it was Heart failure that took her, Norma and Stan always felt she died of a broken heart, having lost her other family members, and being alone.  

In the necessary official events following a death, Stan had to play a large part in giving information about Eva's affairs, as Jack Irvine had died, Walter Irvine was very elderly and Morton Carr had also died. The estate was left to Morton Carr's sons, but they knew very little of their Aunts affairs and this is where Stan was able to provide a lot of information, as the women had taken him into their confidence. Stan knew that the two old Uncles Walter and Jack, had always provided for the family in case of bad times, by salting away tins of coins under certain floor boards, and had drilled holes into the top of a certain door in the house, then placed a quantity of full and half Sovereigns into the holes and plugged them up. Stan now passed on this information to those dealing with the Estate, who found this to be a bit unbelievable.

A visit was made to the house and Stan showed them the various places to find the coins, the door was removed from its hinges, and sure enough there were the Sovereigns, to everyone amazement. In due course the house and contents were Auctioned, Stan and Norma attended and bid for various items, including the Bronze horses. He had informed his bank manager that he could be making an expensive purchase buying the horses, but wanted them at all costs, and wanted to be sure payment would be honoured. At the end of the Auction when Stan went to settle his payments, he was told that the nephews had instructed he was to have those items he bid for without paying, because of his connection with the family and his help with matters of the estate. That was a very emotional moment for Stan, and a gesture he appreciated very much. The house was sold and now a block of flats occupy the site, my only memory of the house as it was are sketchy, I would not have been there very often and it just seemed large and old.  

A small note of interest about the Carrs and Irvines is that they were related to a man named William Thomas Green Morton who was a pioneer in Anaesthesia in America. Morton was the maiden name of Mrs Carr and Jesssie Irvine's, mother.  

Walter Irvine was a cabinet maker, and he had a Colombia Cylinder Graphophone with many Cylinder records to play on it, and he made a beautiful hexagonal cedar box to hold all the records. About 1956 I can recall that I went with my parents, Norma and Stan, to visit Uncle Walter and his wife Aunt Lena at 393 Coventry Street South Melbourne,( Just along from the Portable Iron houses owned by the National trust) to a two storeyed terrace house, with a pocket handkerchief back yard, I was fascinated. Uncle Walter was very old and ill, and Aunt Lena was a dear old soul trying to look after him. Dad asked Uncle Walter about the Graphophone, so that he could show it to me, we were told to go upstairs and where to find it and the box of records, I thought it was just wonderful. Uncle Walter told dad to take it and keep the Graphophone and records, he was thrilled, and very grateful. I now have those things, as dad left them to me to care for and these are something I really treasure, along with the Bronze Horses and various other items from the Carr household. After telling the story of the Carrs and Irvines I will continue on with more of Stan and Wal's childhood days. At times Eva and Elsie as teenage age girls, must have thought that the boys received a little too much attention, their mother would remind them that "These two boys do not have mother." Mrs Carr was very kind and caring, and I believe did a great deal to help shape the people Stan and Wal became. As mentioned before the whole household moved in 1916 to live at 23 Darling Street South Yarra, while living there, often Stan would go out at night with a sugar bag with one of the Uncles (Irvines) and collect manure from where horses had passed near the Yarra River at Punt Road, then bring it home for the garden. The "Uncles" were very good to Stan, and no matter how tired they were after a day’s work they always gave in to his requests to do or make something most nights.